January 23 Recordings and Chat Transcript

By Stephen Downes
Jan 24, 2012

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George S
3:05 PM
mic is yours Ashwin
but not hearing anything
3:05 PM
ok, hearing now
3:05 PM
yes
3:05 PM
Stephen Downes
3:05 PM
we hear you
Hua Ai
3:05 PM
yes
Preetha
3:05 PM
Can hear you
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Rich DeMillo
3:07 PM
the scale is important
George S
3:07 PM
they should be able to do that
I mean, it's only 37k
3:08 PM
Rich DeMillo
3:08 PM
not without breaking rules
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Rich DeMillo
3:08 PM
sure
Preetha
3:08 PM
or the bank
George S
3:08 PM
@Preetha
Asad Choudhary #2
3:08 PM
Are we going to get a copy of the slideshow?
Mike McCracken
3:09 PM
alread posted on the MOOC site
Asad Choudhary #2
3:09 PM
Ok thanks
Hua Ai
3:09 PM
right here: http://gtmooc.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/web-concepts.pdf
mathteacher1729
3:10 PM
Thank you Hua.
Hua Ai
3:10 PM
welcome
brainysmurf
3:10 PM
that's a lot of iPads if one each
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Matt
3:11 PM
iPads are consumer devices. Not much good for contributing
We need general purpose devices
3:11 PM
Rich DeMillo
3:11 PM
yes...accelerating demand
brainysmurf
3:11 PM
Thanks @Matt - what are best contributing devices do you think?
George S
3:11 PM
@Matt - really? I haven't found that to be the case. They can be very good for creating (at least looking at waht my kids do)
Matt
3:12 PM
Tablets are more limited than other devices in terms of file support and input devices
Rich DeMillo
3:12 PM
i dont' wan to dwell on doomsday predictions buyt...
George S
3:12 PM
doomsday can be fun, go with it
mathteacher1729
3:13 PM
Does this new-universities-needed account for the need for trade and vocational training?
In other words 37,000 academic universities or... 37,000 academic PLUS (trade , vocational schools).
3:13 PM
Matt
3:13 PM
Apprenticeships?
Ashwin Ram
3:14 PM
"More than one-third of the world’s population is under 20. To meet this staggering demand, a major university needs to be created each week." — Sir John Daniel (1996)
George S
3:15 PM
so many examples of this type of error
i.e. Kodak last week
3:15 PM
mathteacher1729
3:15 PM
What about trade / vocational schools? Are those included in the count of new universities?
brainysmurf
3:15 PM
@george S kodak last wk?
George S
3:15 PM
@brainysmurf: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/19/us-kodak-idUSTRE80I08G20120119
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Rich DeMillo
3:16 PM
scale...scale...scale....
Matt
3:16 PM
Amazon made catalogue shopping easier, more convenient and quicker.
Rich DeMillo
3:16 PM
right
mass personalization
3:16 PM
Matt
3:17 PM
eBay introduced consumer ratings on a comprehensive, context based system.
Rich DeMillo
3:17 PM
reputation?
new studies of grade inflation support that...
3:17 PM
Matt
3:17 PM
It levels the playing field
brainysmurf
3:17 PM
@george s thx that's wild about Kodak. Talk about missing the boat!
Matt
3:18 PM
Small traders can build excellent reputations
brainysmurf
3:18 PM
big kids like to be part of networks too
dean florez
3:18 PM
could someone please send me the Gates study that was just cited? graduation rates? dean@20mm.org
Ashwin Ram
3:19 PM
"88% of high school dropouts have passing grades." Gates Foundation study “Silent Epidemic” (2006)
Preetha
3:19 PM
Dean, I can look for it and email you.
George S
3:19 PM
btw - Rich has a new book out - highly rated in all reviews I've seen: http://www.amazon.com/Abelard-Apple-American-Colleges-Universities/dp/0262015803/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327346350&sr=8-1
Matt
3:20 PM
Traditional education systems are based on conformity and compliance.
i.e. make everyone "average"
3:20 PM
Preetha
3:20 PM
Silent Epidemic study: http://www.ignitelearning.com/pdf/TheSilentEpidemic3-06FINAL.pdf
Ashwin Ram
3:21 PM
I have the cite and link to the Silent Epidemic study on this blog: http://cognitivecomputing.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/massively-multiplayer-online%E2%80%94learning/
Preetha
3:21 PM
@dean
Ashwin Ram
3:21 PM
[ref. #7]
mathteacher1729
3:21 PM
You can re-arrange the words along the x-asix to form a bell-shaped curve if you please.
dean florez
3:21 PM
that's preetha. appreciated.
Preetha
3:22 PM
@mathteacher, Hi Joe
brainysmurf
3:22 PM
@mathteacher good pt
George S
3:22 PM
another positive aspects of large networks is that people can form small network clusters (i.e. Reeds law)
i.e. while at some levels, we get hubs, in a large enough network, we can create smaller networks that don't reflect those patterns
3:23 PM
brainysmurf
3:23 PM
@george s - I like that flexibility depending on situation in which large/small #s of participants make sense
Rich DeMillo
3:24 PM
universities are organized around popularity...
mathteacher1729
3:24 PM
Thank you for clarifying Ashwin.
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Matt
3:27 PM
They're highly centralised and commoditise their users as entertainment.
Rich DeMillo
3:27 PM
we will see this on wednesday
JGA
3:28 PM
So is the problem more of trusting the learner to articulate legitimate goals and course activities over planning an adequate number of courses that accomodate the student wants?
Preetha
3:28 PM
Hua and I will be talking about our case study!
Rich DeMillo
3:28 PM
yes...break down the idea of a course
Matt
3:28 PM
Faceboo Revenue US$ 4.27 billion (2011 est.)
We need decentralised networks.
3:29 PM
Mike McCracken
3:29 PM
I'm sorry but I'm offline for a bit. I also don't think my audio is working but will retry it when I rejoin.
Matt
3:29 PM
Crowds aren't wise!
Another word for crowd in mob.
3:30 PM
is mob
3:30 PM
Ashwin Ram
3:30 PM
Live session on Wednesday talking about Social Capital within educational "communities of practice" - by Preetha Ram (@preetharam) and Hua Ai (@walkmanhua)
brainysmurf
3:30 PM
@matt - I believe the crowds we choose to run with (in personal learning networks) might be quite wise
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Matt
3:31 PM
It's based on consensus rather than meritocratic, systematic analysis.
Unpopular ideas get lost.
3:31 PM
brainysmurf
3:31 PM
@matt did you hear dave snowden last week on value of dissent? quite interesting...
Preetha
3:31 PM
When the crowd morphs into a community of practice, with leaders,mentors and novices, you move towards wisdom!
Very zen!
3:31 PM
Matt
3:31 PM
Yes
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siavogel
3:32 PM
I agree with @brainsmurfy about PLN as my crowd
brainysmurf
3:32 PM
@preetha i like that
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Preetha
3:32 PM
@brainysmurf thanks. Hear us out on Wed!
brainysmurf
3:32 PM
@preetha sounds good - details?
Matt
3:32 PM
I'm a born dissenter!
brainysmurf
3:33 PM
@matt that's good and welcomed
George S
3:33 PM
@Rich - we had an interesting experience the first time we offered CCK. We were using a learning management system...but eventually moved to blogs instead of a central space
learners need to own their own data
3:33 PM
brainysmurf
3:33 PM
@georgeS agree - becoming owner of my data is important growth activity. scary for some, enchanting for others
Rich DeMillo
3:34 PM
@george i love that direction...lms is destructive
Stephen Downes
3:34 PM
way too busy
Matt
3:34 PM
Check out Diaspora* as an open, decentralised alternative to Facebook, Twitter, et al.
brainysmurf
3:34 PM
@stephen
Stephen Downes
3:34 PM
exactly
Rich DeMillo
3:34 PM
I am at Apple today talking about how technology is taking this...
brainysmurf
3:35 PM
Part of that overwhelmedness seems necessary evil to force people to find their own info/time mgt solutions no?
Matt
3:36 PM
LMS' can provide necessary constraints and facilitate Social Constructivism. It depends on the LMS and how it's used.
Seán Conlan
3:36 PM
Where does peer review sit in this new world?
Matt
3:36 PM
I use peer review a lot.
Rich DeMillo
3:36 PM
@Matt say more
brainysmurf
3:36 PM
@matt I'm becoming less fond of LMS because of the whole 'membership' idea. Internalized in LMS, knowledge is stifled not Googleable.
Matt
3:36 PM
Moodle has a peer review module
Rich DeMillo
3:37 PM
I am meeting with Sebastian
Matt
3:37 PM
that facilitates easy, systematic peer review with rubrics
Seán Conlan
3:37 PM
I meant peer review in blogging...and owning your own space
Matt
3:37 PM
it encourages learners to develop their analytical and critical thinking skills
brainysmurf
3:38 PM
@matt - perhaps learners are *recovering* analytical and critical thinking skills beaten out of them in traditional ed?
George S
3:38 PM
love that statement "wandering seminar"
Matt
3:39 PM
and learners don't get to choose who they review, therefore they are exposed to points of view they don't necessarily agree with and are forced to think differently.
mathteacher1729
3:39 PM
Erdos published more papers than any mathematician ever. Euler wrote the most PAGES of any mathematician ever.
brainysmurf
3:39 PM
@matt eek don't like being told who I have to review
mathteacher1729
3:39 PM
Erdos made mathematics a social activity. Awesome guy. I love his Erdos-isms. "Children = Epsilons".
Matt
3:40 PM
@brainy, we "should" seek out differences and opposition but all too often we don't
mathteacher1729
3:40 PM
"Moot scale"? Did I mis-hear or did that mean "moodle-scale"?
And Moodle-scale = "Your course managmeent systme of coice ... scale"
3:40 PM
Matt
3:42 PM
@brainy, that's the inherent stupidity of crowds.
Going with the consensus and avoiding conflict
3:42 PM
brainysmurf
3:43 PM
@matt I'm starting to see that - too many fluffy bunnies according to dave snowden
Matt
3:43 PM

We need constraints, I guess.
3:44 PM
brainysmurf
3:44 PM
for me, moocs are crowds of people who 'get it' and in that sense are a welcome change from the rest of my work.
Matt
3:44 PM
I guess we're wolves
brainysmurf
3:45 PM
@mathteacher - tried to google epsilon, still don't get what it means?
@matt eating fluffy bunnies for breakfast?
3:45 PM
George S
3:45 PM
I love the annotation and debate feature in PLoS
mathteacher1729
3:46 PM
The greek letter epsilon (it looks likea backwards "3" represents a "very small number" in calculus.
Matt
3:46 PM
I typically get ignored by the majority. People shy away from difficult questions.
brainysmurf
3:47 PM
@math thanks, that helps. I was thinking it was the symbol for sum, in which case children as sum of something was also interesting
Preetha
3:47 PM
Here is the link to how communities of practice can help the fluffy bunnies problem with crowds or improve the wisdom of crowds, http://bit.ly/sGWTfo
brainysmurf
3:48 PM
one of best things i've learned from moocs is that info overload isn't the problem - filter failure is.
Seán Conlan
3:48 PM
is geography becoming irrelevant?
Matt
3:49 PM
Thanks Preetha!
brainysmurf
3:49 PM
@sean it is irrelevant for me! with the right tools at hand now
Ashwin Ram
3:49 PM
From @PreethaRam's OCWC Global 2011 talk: "Leve and Wenger (1991) proposed the theory of a community of practice where members come together with a common passion or a need to do something, to learn something. In such a community, learning is enhanced through interactions, encouragement, role models and support. Peer-to-peer learning allows learners to help one another, benefitting both the learners and the tutors (Fuchs, 1997). Best of all, it is scalable to the millons."
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Rich DeMillo
3:49 PM
right input needed
Matt
3:50 PM
http://www.ewenger.com/
Ashwin Ram
3:50 PM
See slide #11 on the slideshare on this post: http://preetharam.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/open-social-learning-aka-massively-multiplayer-online-learning/
Rich DeMillo
3:50 PM
@georges -- it takes a lot of ideas to innovate
Ashwin Ram
3:51 PM
Communities of Practice + Peer Learning + Social Constructivism + Blended Learning
George S
3:52 PM
the notion of betting on a winner isn't prudent in light of complexity theory
Ashwin Ram
3:52 PM
Also see Siemens & Downes "Connectivism" ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectivism
George S
3:52 PM
@Rich - you're an optimist!
brainysmurf
3:53 PM
not sure troublemakers are drawn to university setting in the first place?
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Matt
3:53 PM
Nietzche found the idea of philosophy within institutions laughable.
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George S
3:54 PM
This is the site Rich referred to: http://gtmooc.com/
Ashwin Ram
3:54 PM
Behaviorism --> Cognitivism --> Constructivism --> Connectivism: http://www.elearnspace.org/Articles/connectivism.htm
George S
3:55 PM
btw, if anyone is interested, Stephen and I just started an open course on this, well, today: http://cck12.mooc.ca/
Preetha
3:55 PM
Good stuff @george and @stephen. Visionary!
brainysmurf
3:55 PM
part of being busy @stephen @george S
institution vs. distribution? may need to ponder this
3:56 PM
to institute = contain, constrain, confine?
3:56 PM
can an institution actually be 'open'
3:57 PM
Matt
3:57 PM
Google, Facebook, Twitter, et al are trying to gain power over us by being the new gatekeepers to knowledge and opportunity.
Massively centralised databases and user data.
3:58 PM
It's unhealthy.
3:58 PM
brainysmurf
3:58 PM
@matt so you don't use any of the 'big' players? Google, FB, Twitter, etc?
Matt
3:59 PM
No, I self host.
siavogel
3:59 PM
To difficult for me @matt
Matt
3:59 PM
Everything runs on my own server.
It's not that hard to do these days.
3:59 PM
siavogel
4:00 PM
Thanks so far.
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brainysmurf
4:00 PM
time on Wed again please?
Matt
4:00 PM
A lot of hosts offer one-click installs for web software.
gjoyce 1
4:00 PM
I work at a univ. This is so relevant, a comprehensive way for me to see all the parts, influences in a together way...fantastic and thank you.
brainysmurf
4:00 PM
thanks all
Preetha
4:00 PM
10 am PT wed, 1pm EST
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