January 11 Chat Transcript

By Stephen Downes
Jan 16, 2012


January 11, Valerie Irvine and Jillianne Code presentation
- Elluminate Recording
- Video recording (courtesy Jeff Lebow)



Stephen Downes
6:01 PM
plus a week 0
Jillianne Code
6:01 PM
wow! Thanks for signing in everyone!
- Sheena joined the Main Room. ( 10:32 AM ) -
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Mark McGuire
6:02 PM
We need more "tropuble". And trouble makers.
gsiemens
6:03 PM
Edmonton is beautiful, isn't it, Valerie?
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Mark McGuire
6:07 PM
Hopefully, innovation doesn't require large funding grants - otherwise, it isn't sustainable or easily transferrable.
Ben Samuels
6:08 PM
online programs don't have good sports teams!
gsiemens
6:08 PM
or, how does an online program compete against open education
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Mark McGuire
6:09 PM
Boy, do we need change! In the papers this morning: 1 killed 20 injured in stampede to register at U of Johannesburg. 1 in 8 admitted; 51% unemployed (Telegraph) http://goo.gl/TgVSV
Jaap
6:09 PM
young students want to leave home and live on campus, not at home
gsiemens
6:10 PM
Mark: read that. Crazy. Shows how important education is...and why we shouldn't place artificial barriers to learning
What happens if all international universities adopt the same international model?
6:10 PM
Valerie Irvine #2
6:11 PM
if all did... maybe we would see a collapse to the programs with the best programs? regardless of who delivers how....
Mark McGuire
6:12 PM
@George: For many traditional universities, limiting admission (supply) drives up percieved value - and cost. This suits their business model.
Rosa Ojeda Ayala
6:13 PM
George, there are different types of traditional universities: rich and poor, for instance.
JGA
6:13 PM
I think the U Johannesburg tragedy underscores the importance of the research that Kop and others are doing on MOOCs. I think competing with brick and mortar comes down to the value and recognition of online/MOOC & B&M coursework.
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Mark McGuire
6:14 PM
@Val: Is the nature of the course material, and its delivery, different for online v.s. offline?
gsiemens
6:14 PM
If we have to do work arounds that cost that much, the problem is the existing system...
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Andreas Link
6:15 PM
hi
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Jillianne Code
6:17 PM
Hi there - Thanks for coming!
Mark McGuire
6:17 PM
@George: Yes, definately, the system is a core problem. Clickers in the classroom gets funding as "innovative" at my uni. Fundamental change is needed, but is seen as too threatening. Also, who in the system befefits from challenging the system? Where, within the system, is the incentive and reward system for real change?
Stephen Downes
6:18 PM
I need a new computer - sound recording from stereo mix simply died... *sigh*
Ben Samuels
6:19 PM
Students benefit!
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Mark McGuire
6:20 PM
@Val: Re: student concerns about going public: Great opportunity to talk to students about the benefits of "OPEN" and allowing yourself to be seen and heard. Engaging with those outside the classroom could follow.
Valerie Irvine #2
6:20 PM
I agree - most don't at all about being open....
I tried bringing in consent forms before and ... they didn't care. Our students are more ready for this than our institution.
6:21 PM
gsiemens
6:23 PM
good luck!!
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George Hobson
6:24 PM
seems that purpose of increasing international students is budget driven at the expense of what might suit international students - also, immigration issues and worries seem to be at odds with the wish to have more int students
Jaap
6:25 PM
how many students fail in an online course and how many fail in a F2F course?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:25 PM
it would be chosen by the students.
a class with dual F2F and online delivery would self-choose. a cap to the class would be set in total.
6:26 PM
it could be 10 students F2F and 20 online...
6:26 PM
Mark McGuire
6:26 PM
I wonder if there is a fundamental contradiction between increasing income for institutions and opening up education to more who could benefit but cannot access or pay. Perhaps hybrid or parallel models for higher ed (as we see in other innovative businesses) are possible. Either that or a very different model that is not as business oriented.
Valerie Irvine #2
6:26 PM
could be 10 students online/20 F2F
or expand to hundreds......
6:26 PM
gsiemens
6:30 PM
COOC?
Stephen Downes
6:30 PM
Jeff Lebow = COOLcast (he's in Korea)
gsiemens
6:31 PM
works for me
allanquartz
6:31 PM
Collaborative Open Online Learning?
gsiemens
6:31 PM
can I grab the mic?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:32 PM
ha
Mark McGuire
6:32 PM
How about MOOS (Massive Open Online Stories)?
Stephen Downes
6:32 PM
I like the word MOOC
Jaap
6:32 PM
I love MOOC
Stephen Downes
6:32 PM
I like the word blog
Jaap
6:32 PM
MOOC is the sound of a cow...
Valerie Irvine #2
6:32 PM
MoooooooC!
Stephen Downes
6:32 PM
*not* collaborative - it's not collaborative - it's (at best) cooperative
suifaijohnmak
6:33 PM
Is language/technology an issue/ challenge for international students with COOL?
Mark McGuire
6:33 PM
Or MOOSE (Massive Open Online Story Environment). We could all go MOOSE spotting. Moose are cool.
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Valerie Irvine #2
6:33 PM
that's very canadian...
MOOSE
6:33 PM
JGA
6:33 PM
The word MOOC is what it is, it is not a Collaborative experience, (can be) but not set up as one. Collaborative requires participation, a MOOC doesn't not.
does not.
6:33 PM
Stephen Downes
6:34 PM
'collaborative' requires a lot more than just participation - requires sameness of purpose, shared vocabulary, etc
gsiemens
6:34 PM
sorry - long question
Stephen Downes
6:34 PM
there was a question in there?
gsiemens
6:35 PM
@Stephen - I thought so, but it's always hit and miss
Mark McGuire
6:35 PM
@Val: Apparently, several moose were released on the West Coast of the South Island of New Zealand in the 1920s. Not seen since. However, the search continues . . .
keith.hamon
6:36 PM
http://halfanhour.blogspot.com/2010/04/collaboration-and-cooperation.html
gsiemens
6:38 PM
but...aren't those people technically illiterate?
JGA
6:38 PM
What is important in a MOOC is the opportunity to experience emergent learning. How will the brick and mortar institutions accomodate this learning need?
Stephen Downes
6:39 PM
they're not..
Jaap
6:39 PM
in a univ teaching is your selling point, you must be good in teaching
Mark McGuire
6:40 PM
@Val: If the tech can be easier and cheaper (in time as well as money) than offline preparation and delivery techniques, then there is a better chance of involving academics who are not tech-centred. If it saves money and increases reputation (if not income), institutions may also become more supportive.
George Hobson
6:43 PM
Question/impression I get from what you say: is knowledge "trapped" in Uni Vic by walled approach? would it be richer, more informed, more challenged - with COOL, MOOC or MOOSE - open online approaches?
Mark McGuire
6:43 PM
@JGA: Good question. The nature of institutions is to institutionalise (staff as well as students) as the first and primary objective. Teaching De-institutionalisation 101 is then a rather difficult proposition.
Valerie Irvine #2
6:44 PM
Knowledge is DEFINITELY trapped in many universities due to restricted delivery method options!
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suifaijohnmak
6:46 PM
What percentage of your courses are now online?
Ben Samuels
6:46 PM
look at the book at the center of the U. Vic logo, same for most university logos... will the computer start to replace it?
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Stephen Downes
6:48 PM
lol
gsiemens
6:48 PM
harsh
Mark McGuire
6:48 PM
#Ben Tablets @US$38.50 for uni students in India. As they say, don't ask about the future of the book, consider the future of reading.
Sheena
6:49 PM
Do you anticpate using BJN in the future?
trading in Elluminate?
6:50 PM
Stephen Downes
6:50 PM
recording = good
suifaijohnmak
6:51 PM
What do you see will be future of PhD programs - in terms of online/blended learning? Will it be all online?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:51 PM
No. I would see F2F forever, but more multi-access, allowing some to be at a distance.
Stephen Downes
6:51 PM
hm.. pretty much all cdn info being shared with the U.S. anyways
gsiemens
6:51 PM
Elluminate was calgary based
not sure where they host now
6:51 PM
Valerie Irvine #2
6:51 PM
I have had VERY strong applicants from elsewhere who needed to stay at a distance.
gsiemens
6:53 PM
true, but right now, universities own our learning content
suifaijohnmak
6:53 PM
Is TOTAL openness possible in HE?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:54 PM
I think we can get there.
Mark McGuire
6:54 PM
@Val: Yes, privacy is a real issue. We need more online tools and environments that are not wholly private. We need to get out of the mall and back into the public square.
Valerie Irvine #2
6:54 PM
we have to get them used to online first
Stephen Downes
6:54 PM
it's like how governments are very concerned about someone sharing an image, but can't fuigure out how to stop phishing attacks from bilking people out of their life savings
Jillianne Code
6:55 PM
http://bcedplan.ca/
@bcedplan
6:55 PM
suifaijohnmak
6:56 PM
To what extent are Uni supportive of openness in teaching & learning (re: Stanford & MIT)?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:56 PM
I think they are getting interested but many still are not aware of it.
YES. financial and better ed.
6:56 PM
happy students are happy finances
6:56 PM
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Jaap
6:57 PM
your univ is state funded or private funded?
Valerie Irvine #2
6:57 PM
State (province)
Jaap
6:57 PM
ok
suifaijohnmak
6:59 PM
Do you have any target learners or just any qualified ones in the world?
Jillianne Code
6:59 PM
UVic is a 'public' university
Mark McGuire
6:59 PM
It is sometimes difficult to be truely "learner-centred" when we work in universities that are institutionally-centred. In many cases, that means prioritizing research and attracting more international students who are charged higher fees (i.e. not from families who are in greatest need).
suifaijohnmak
7:00 PM
Multi-access is great from learners' point of views. How about the teachers' point of views? Demanding?
Jaap
7:01 PM
thursday here now
Jillianne Code
7:01 PM
Happy Thursday!

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