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Daily Newsletter

October 7, 2011


This is the last day of the week on collective learning, we hope you have enjoyed thinking about some of the issues we have presented and discussed. In our work, we have tried to define the knowledge actions underpinning collective learning as described in the post here http://littleby Using these actions as a framework has helped us think about collective learning.

Do you think the knowledge actions of consume, connect, create, contribute are a useful framework to think about collective learning? What online (and offline?) tools support these behaviours? Is there anything missing within this toolset? Use #change11 and #collective5 to share your ideas as usual.

Today there is a scheduled synchronous session at 5pm (UK time) where we will reflect on the ideas presented during the week and the different perspectives provided by course participants. (Browse blog posts here)

The online session starts at 12:00 noon Atlantic (11:00 a.m. Eastern, check your time zone). Click here to enter the meeting.

We will continue to synthesise the ideas collected during the course of this week and will provide links on our blogs (list all blogs) tagged as usual: #change11 and #collective

Coming Events

Friday: Collective Learning with Allison Littlejohn
Click Here to Attend Event
Speakers: Allison Littlejohn
Start: 2011-10-07 12:00 EDT (Check Time Zones)
Finish: 2011-10-07 13:00 EDT

Meeting room will be open 1/2 hour before start time. Please provide content to me ( for uploading, or upload from within the meeting environment. Email if you have difficulties or questions.

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Facilitator Posts

To view the entire blog post, click on the title of the post, and you will be taken to the blog post itself.

Discussion Threads on #change11
Various Authors, #change11, October 7, 2011.

To start a discussion on #change11:
- Go to the viewer -
- Click the 'comment' button at the top of the page
- fill out the form with your title and contents

To view all discussions, go to:
or, for a dynamically updated version, this secret url:


Blog Posts

This is a list of the blog posts mentioning the change11 keyword or tag harvested from the list of blogs submitted by participants.
[Browse all Blog Posts]

Criticism of MOOCs – add-on
jupidu, ZML Didaktik / Innovative Learning Scenarios
In his ELEARNSPACE George Siemens comments  the reaction to his on innterview on Why Universities Should Experiment With 'Massive Open [Link] Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:06:11 +0000 [Comment]

Do we need to know one another when sharing?
AK, Multilitteratus Incognitus
The other day I came across a recent #change11 post by Jaap on his blog and there was an interesting question:Do we need to know each other when we are sharing knowledge and collaborating?This is a case where I had an immediate response, then I thought back to my own personal examples of sharing...and then I ended up with no answer at all, but rather I was left with a giant question mark (i.e. this needs some research)My initial answer, without giving it much thought, was: of course we need to .... [Link] Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:18:00 +0000 [Comment]

Twitter Updates for 2011-10-07
t.stafford, Desperately Seeking Fusion™
RT Teaching information literacy online #elearning #ICT #digitaliteracy @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT The History of #Online Education #eLearning @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT Online-Learning Growth Is Confirmed by Education Dept. Report #edchat #elearning @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT Future Perceptions of Distance Learning | @scoopit #elearning @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # Powered by Twitter [Link] Fri, 07 Oct 2011 06:00:00 +0000 [Comment]

COLLECTIVE LEARNING: reflections This is the last day of the week on collective learning, we hope you have enjoyed thinking about some of the issues we have presented and discussed. In our work, we have tried to define the knowledge actions underpinning collective learning as described in the post ( connect, consume, create, contribute. Using [...] [Link] Fri, 07 Oct 2011 06:58:56 +0000 [Comment]

#change11 Collective Learning Examples
umair, #change11
Example 1: Learning from CoworkersWhen working on a day to day task, one learns more efficient, better, and different ways of performing that task. The way one does that is by observing and talking with their coworkers when at work. These lessons then become part of our daily routine of performing those tasks. We take the best practices and embed them into our daily routine, while leaving out the less efficient practices.Example 2: Learning from ResearchingWhen we are researching for certain .... [Link] 2011-10-06T18:08:00.000-07:00 [Comment]

Should we apply Ostrom’s design principles to online learning communities?
rolandlegrand, MixedRealities
Getting ready for a second session of Howard Rheingold’s course Toward a Literacy of Cooperation. Today we’ll study Elinor Ostrom, the American political economist who was awarded the 2009 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences. As is explained on The Cooperation Commons, Ostrom found that groups that are able to organize and govern their [Link] Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:30:53 +0000 [Comment]

Collective Learning - My Learning #change11
Mary Karpel, Personal & Professional Development
Wow!Second post in one day!At last I have found time to participate in the MOOC ~ Change11.  Where to start?  To be honest, my brain hurts!  My initial response is to shut down the computer and go get a gin and tonic rather than blog a poorly drafted narrative of my learning experience.  However, I ask my students to take the time to reflect upon their learning because of the value it offers in making meaning, so feel I should&.... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:00:00 +0000 [Comment]

Criticism of MOOCs
jupidu, ZML Didaktik / Innovative Learning Scenarios
Interesting … checking twitter I have followed a link to Tech Therapy: Episode 88: Why Universities Should Experiment With 'Massive Open Courses' I didn’t listen to George Siemens case for why colleges should experiment with inviting tens of thousands of students to participate in their courses free online – BUT some comments affected me: If 10,000 students [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:07:07 +0000 [Comment]

the death of purity
bon, » change11
This is not a post about Steve Jobs. At least not mostly. When I started writing yesterday, I’d considered calling it “Jobs Are Dead.” Small “j” jobs, that is, not Jobs himself. But in the spate of elegies and eulogies spinning round the web today, the title just looks like a misuse of the plural [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:07:29 +0000 [Comment]

What binds people to collective learning?
AK, Multilitteratus Incognitus
This week in Change MOOC, we see in Littlejohn's position paper that one of the things that one of the things that binds people together in collective learning is the creation of a social object. The example given is a group of scientists coming together to produce some sort of report. Littlejohn asks us, the MOOC participants, to share our view of what binds people in collective learning.While the creation of a social object is indeed something to think about - take for example my (and .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:12:00 +0000 [Comment]

T, lúcidaTranslúcida
Minds on [Link] 2011-10-06T12:17:00.000-07:00 [Comment]

Reading Littlejohn’s „Connected knowledge, collective learning“
jupidu, ZML Didaktik / Innovative Learning Scenarios
„People have to learn to solve real-world problems faster and more effectively“ – the problems are too complex for one person => the knowledge of „the many“ is needed (Siemens, 2005, p 27: „Learning is an in-process activity. We need to lay aside the desire to know, and embrace instead the desire to continue to [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:31:44 +0000 [Comment]

Making sense of collective/connective learning – the plot thickens (#change11)
opendistanceteachingandlearning, opendistanceteachingandlearning
Somehow the notion of collective/connective learning (#change11) does not want to let me go. I attended (however briefly) an Elluminate session today with Allison Littlejohn as part of On the bus back home the following question remained with me: … Continue reading → [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:05:02 +0000 [Comment]

eMJBe: Collective Learning Task 2 :: #change11 #collective #charting
Michael Brooke, Twitter / eMJBe
eMJBe: Collective Learning Task 2 :: #change11 #collective #charting [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:16:29 +0000 [Comment]

Struggle to progress
mdeimann, markusmind
Taking part in two Open Online Courses (MOOC #change11 and P2PU) demands a lot of attention and effort. Sometimes it may feel like you have to carry a big backpack or rucksack as we in Germany call it. Does anybody feel the same?? I have to come up with a learning plan and I have [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:47:51 +0000 [Comment]

Could I have my sandbox back, please?
brainysmurf1234, Connecting the dots
Picking up on a great thread on self-regulation, #collective learning and “developing as independent learners” in Jeffrey Keefer’s post for #change11, I am having a ‘wait a minute’, inner-voice, gut-reaction moment here…aren’t all learners self-directed or self-regulated to some degree already? I’m picturing how pre-schoolers learn in a sandbox. They choose whether to engage with others, to [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:02:12 +0000 [Comment]

Group members, Best content in change11 | Diigo - Groups
Comments:The Global Learning and Observations to Benefit the Environment (GLOBE) program is a worldwide hands-on, primary and secondary school-based science and education program. GLOBE's vision promotes and supports students, teachers and scientists to collaborate on inquiry-based investigations of the environment and the Earth system - Yukon sylthis is a good example of connected knowledge building and certainly of collective knowledge. What's unique about this is the explicit .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:02:50 -0000 [Comment]

The Phenomena of Emergence (Collective Learning #change11 )
bioram, Change MOOC Reflections
Yesterday, I joined the CIDER meeting Emergent Learning and Learning Ecologies in Web 2.0.  One of the other audience members made a comment to me that got me thinking.  We were talking about emergence, and I made mention of mathematical complexity.  The response was that we were discussing social emergence, and that math was just a metaphor.  That is what got me thinking.A little background.  Chaos theory was just becoming big when I started my .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:00:00 +0000 [Comment]

McGonigal suggests gamers can save the world!
Yukonsyl, eXplorations
Jane McGonigalPierre LevyHoward RheingoldThis week's topic of connected learning has made me think back to all the blogs, research, videos related to the potential power of connected minds (backchannel thoughts of hive mentality, Borg ships filled with connected minds). When I was studying at UBC, we explored many ideas around cyberculture, including Pierre Levy's work in the area of collective intelligence, Howard Rheingold's expertise in facilitating active engaged virtual .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:07:00 +0000 [Comment]

Connected Knowledge, Collective Learning
Allison Littlejohn,
Connected Knowledge, collective learning View another webinar from [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 14:21:15 +0000 [Comment]

Collective Learning - nothing new...
AK, Multilitteratus Incognitus
On my commute home last night I had the opportunity to catch up with the initial readings for this week on Change MOOC. The topic this week is collective learning with Allison Littlejohn. I have to say that the concept was rather interesting, and technology has certainly enabled the possibility for Massive collective learning - but the idea of collective learning isn't new.Some early personal examples of collective learning is my long term participation in forums like .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:46:00 +0000 [Comment]

Effective learning #change11 re. collective learning
svmoose, Inside Irene Gould's head
“Learning effectively from the collective requires open learning literacies and resources which complement traditional types”. I agree that if you want to learn you will need access to literacies (when you have access, they are open). I’m not so sure if you need resources which complement traditional types. Do you really? Why? Traditional sources can [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 14:30:42 +0000 [Comment]

Becoming a Professional Scholar - Using Open Course Ware via @cnxorg
rainbowhill, In Learning
Becoming a Professional Scholar - Using Open Course Ware via @cnxorg: This complete online course, designed to help grad students develop an identity as a professional scholar, is offered on Connexions and is available for remixing under Creative Commons CC-BY. If you are intent on becoming a digital scholar, there are so many quality resources out [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 22:55:05 +1000 [Comment]

Does Collective Learning = Organizational Exploitation? #change11
Jeffrey Keefer, Silence and Voice
I had a really interesting comment from Allison Littlejohn in reaction to the Week 4 #change11 MOOC discussion on Collective Learning we are having this week. In her examples about collective learning in organizations or the workplace (or even academia), they all involve crowdsourcing or wisdom of crowds or greater learning by the collective than OPENBLOCK... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 11:56:12 +0000 [Comment]

#change11: ragionando sull’apprendimento collettivo
serenaturri, serenaturri's Blog
Il tema della settimana fornisce a me opportunità di auto – riflessione e formulazione di una classifica delle forme preferite di apprendimento,  mentre gli esempi di apprendimento collettivo proposti aiutano a mettere a fuoco questioni inerenti a: 1) come spiegare l’apprendimento collettivo  2) come definire l’apprendimento collettivo 3) cosa lo caratterizza.  A innescare la rivoluzione [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 11:09:47 +0000 [Comment]

Collective Learning Task 2 :: #change11 #collective #charting
Michael Brooke, Michael Brooke
So to the next task; to read this post on charting and to see whether I agree or not. Well the reality is that the first question for me has been whether I understand or not! The #edmedia11 conference gave … Continue reading → [Link] [Comment]

Jeffrey's Twitter Updates for 2011-10-06
Jeffrey Keefer, Silence and Voice
@gsiemens @mweller Fingers crossed for the #Elluminate sharing #change11 in reply to gsiemens # @saadat_m I wish I could have joined the #CIDER session, but hectic day at work. How was it? #change11 in reply to saadat_m # Thinking on the death of Steve Jobs, I wonder if the difference between a visionary and OPENBLOCK... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:25:00 +0000 [Comment]

Collective knowledge to Collective Action
Lou Mcgill, loumcgill
From OERs to Open Practice In a recent post about my OER work I talk about a move from focussing on open educational resources to open practice. This situates OERs within open practice – as one aspect of  it. So for me OERs are resources used to support learning in either a formal or informal [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:13:51 +0000 [Comment]

Twitter Updates for 2011-10-06
t.stafford, Desperately Seeking Fusion™
RT Check out this article: Online mind mapping sites. #elearning #homeschool @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT States urged to give high schools better data on if students are prepared for college @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT You'll fall in love with all the cool things you can do with #ClickerSchool @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT [...] [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:00:00 +0000 [Comment]

Ken Robinson: Changing Education Paradigms & #change11
Jeffrey Keefer, Silence and Voice
I just came across this thought-provoking video Ken Robinson: Changing Education Paradigms, and thought others who may have missed it may find the visualization of the TED talk engaging. It does certainly resonate with the collective learning work of Allison Littlejohn in this week’s #change11 MOOC course! Similar Posts: Initial Reaction to Little by Littlejohn – Collective Learning #change11 Jeffrey’s Twitter Updates for 2011-10-05 Jeffrey’s Twitter .... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 04:11:57 +0000 [Comment]

change11 position paper |
Group members, Best content in change11 | Diigo - Groups
Highlights and Sticky Notes:we don't have a good understanding of the 'binding force' that connects people while they are learning and building knowledge.Why would this "binding force" be that different from what binds people together in different kinds of relationships outside of collective learning?  Everyone has their own personal reasons for learning from and sharing with the collective, and these reasons are pretty similar to the reasons people learn and share in &.... [Link] Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:51:58 -0000 [Comment]

Idea for gRSShopper - participant +1
AK, Multilitteratus Incognitus
I was sitting on the train this afternoon On the train catching up on the Digital Scholar (Martin Weller's book from last week on Change MOOC), reading some of the seed-posts from this week's facilitator and reading some initial posts from people who've already written something on thus week's topic (collective learning).I have a few blog post to dos on my list for the next couple of days (which require more text and brain power than I have now...otherwise I'd get .... [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 22:48:00 +0000 [Comment]

eBooks: In Remembrance of Things Past?
Mark Mcguire, Mark McGuire's Blog
I caught a Twitter post this morning with a link to an article on by Paul Lafarge: “Why the book's future never happened.” (5 October). He reviews the history of hypertext narratives, and he asks why the hypertext novel has failed to supplant the conventional form, even though we are increasingly reading books on [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 23:50:41 +0000 [Comment]

COLLECTIVE LEARNING: literacies and resources Learning effectively from the collective requires open  learning literacies and resources which complement traditional types. Some of our work in UK Higher Education attempts to define and consider these and begin to foster them within formal education. These ideas are explored in task 4. Task 4 is to contribute to the [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:20:35 +0000 [Comment]

@change11 Still the same thoughts on collective learning
svmoose, Inside Irene Gould's head
“How might collective learning improve learning and development in the workplace?” Well, I think collective learning always existed in the workplace. Maybe not to the extent of today, the technology does make it a lot easier to connect to that collective knowledge, but if you looked at the quality, it sure was there. People talked [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:41:01 +0000 [Comment]

Collective Learning part 3 (Ah-Ha moment) #change11
bioram, Change MOOC Reflections
This morning in my email box, there was a note that there was a comment in Jeff Merrell's Learning. Change. By Design. blog.  Allison Littlejohn had left a link to some of the presentation papers she and her colleagues have given.  I want to thank her for those links because they have helped to give me more clarity on her concept of Collective Learning.As I have mentioned before, I don't see the concept of collective knowledge and learning as radically new.  .... [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 15:05:00 +0000 [Comment]

Collective learning examples :: #change11 #collective
Michael Brooke, Michael Brooke
After having been an agile lurker for a couple of weeks on #change11  I thought it time to make a relevant post to the task on producing examples of #collective  learning. As a teacher of IB Computer Science and ITGS … Continue reading → [Link] [Comment]

Imagine your world
T, lúcidaTranslúcida
Imagine Your World from Alyson Beaton on Vimeo.the bet is a meeting of people with different professions to consider solutions based on [Link] 2011-10-05T06:41:00.000-07:00 [Comment]

eMJBe: Collective learning examples :: #change11 #collective
Michael Brooke, Twitter / eMJBe
eMJBe: Collective learning examples :: #change11 #collective [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:49:43 +0000 [Comment]

#Change11 Fight for the truth
suifaijohnmak, Learner Weblog
What is your life lesson?  Here is the live blog of Daniel Schechtman, this year’s Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry where you will find his story. His discovery was extremely controversial. In the course of defending his findings, he was … Continue reading → [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:22:48 +0000 [Comment]

Open Access scholarship: how does one eat?
Gillian, Gillian's Learning and Qualifications Blog
Should academics ever get paid for the papers that they produce as part of their research?  Kent Anderson on this topic refers to the ‘Monbiot rant‘.  Stephen Downes, well-known for support of Open Access,  refers today to a very useful survey by David Jennings – useful despite the limitations that David clearly outlines (only academics, [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:38:03 +0000 [Comment]

Collective and connected learning: implications for open, distance and e-learning
opendistanceteachingandlearning, opendistanceteachingandlearning
In a position paper by Allison Littlejohn on “Connected knowledge, collective learning” (#change11), she states that “… real-world problems are now too complex to be solved by a single person" and that we therefore have to look for collective solutions. … Continue reading → [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:19:08 +0000 [Comment]

Twitter Updates for 2011-10-05
t.stafford, Desperately Seeking Fusion™
RT @angelsandoval: 75 Tips to Reduce eLearning Costs free eLearning Guild eBook | #elearning @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT @erikapaezv: The Four P's to Part-Time #eLearning Freelance > by @LearnNuggets #freelance @Virtualismg @tmstaffordllc # RT @elearningposts: 2011 Social Media for Learning Report by @C4LPT Weekly Best in #elearning @Virtualismg… # RT Why You [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 06:00:00 +0000 [Comment]

Jeffrey's Twitter Updates for 2011-10-05
Jeffrey Keefer, Silence and Voice
My interests, areas of discussion and passion for research, doctoral and other, have officially exceeded my non-work time #change11 #phdchat # Can examples of collective learning be action learning or problem-based learning? in #change11 @allisonl # Happy @allisonl replied to my post Initial Reaction to Little by Littlejohn in #change11 — some OPENBLOCK... [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 06:25:00 +0000 [Comment]

#change11 week 4 – Collective learning
John Kuti, feel do think
The issues here are merrily skating over a very philosophical abyss which I suggest is best explored by reading Deleuze…which few people are doing yet in the field of Educational Technology… Littlejohn’s blogpost refers to Sfard on the metaphors of … Continue reading → [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 06:41:45 +0000 [Comment]

Collective Learning Part 2 #change11
bioram, Change MOOC Reflections
Yesterday, I posted my first response to the Collective Learning concept that is being discussed in #change11.   I mentioned that that I was missing a peice of the puzzle to Collective Learning, and I discussed how in science this does not seem like a new concept.  I was reading Jeff Merrell's post on Collective Learning at Learning.Change. By Design., and I think I found that missing peice.I started to realize that .... [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 03:41:00 +0000 [Comment]

Binding and Values #change11
Glenyan, A Point of Contact
The topic of Binding in collective learning seems a bit up in the air. Littlejohn’s description of the Charting process focuses on how learners bind together, rather than what binds them. Running through her commentary of the process of charting is a theme of knowledge that is valued. Language like reinterpret, relevant and making sense all [...] [Link] Wed, 05 Oct 2011 01:26:04 +0000 [Comment]

Frustrated with links in #change11
svmoose, Inside Irene Gould's head
Not everybody has access to Word documents DOOX, or whatever they are……I have an old Mac, works like a charm, but it doesn’t open the links posted by Littlejohn……frustrating…… # [Link] Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:48:02 +0000 [Comment]

Examples of collective learning
brainysmurf1234, Connecting the dots
In response to #collective Task 1 by Allison Littlejohn for Week 4 of #change11: - web conferencing to brainstorm, tweak a document or resolve a problem on a website - discussion boards on SharePoint - using SharePoint as a platform for employees to share innovations for client service - using a wiki to draft a [...] [Link] Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:05:34 +0000 [Comment]

Technology, pedagogy and emancipatory change
pepsmccrea, LEARNEROSITY
I am coming to understand that one of the most important roles that digital technologies play in our turbulent times is as an excuse to explore and foster pedagogical change. The world we live in has changed. For those with … Continue reading → [Link] Tue, 04 Oct 2011 20:14:56 +0000 [Comment]

If your blog post isn't here, don't panic. Participant feeds have not yet been checked and added to the list. Give us a few days. :)

New Discussion Threads

Consider commenting on a blog post to create a new discussion here. To view the entire discussion thread, click on the title of the post.

The A-Z Dictionary of Educational Twitter Hashtags - Edudemic
lrenshaw, 49 - Best content in change11 | Diigo - Groups, October 7, 2011.

Thanks for this link. I am trying to make better use of Twitter but often the whole posts just seem to consist of #hash tags and @ symbols. This site will hopefully relief some stress and increase capacity to access relevant sites and ideas. Big acknowledge for helping a lost learner!! [Comment]

Tools for Collective Learning
brainysmurf, 120 - Educational Technology - Insights, October 6, 2011.

Good question, George. Creating a mash-up of the knowledge, repurposing it and contributing it to the collective were things that I was hesitant to do earlier in my moocing experience. It took something more personal than technical know-how (though that was important too). It took risk, trust and confidence on my part to feel that creating and contributing outside my own head or my own desk was worthwhile and that I could participate without compromising my privacy. It was also thanks to fellow moocers that I recognized the value (dare I say obligation) of reciprocity such that creating and contributing is a commitment I make to honour others who have done so for much longer than I. Maybe we need to add a fifth 'c' to the charting framework then: [Comment]

My actual status in the change MOOC
Jane Wilde (Esme Qunhua in SL), 253 - ZML Didaktik / Innovative Learning Scenarios, October 6, 2011.

jupidu you mention you've developed "a template to monitor, what I'm doing in connection with change11." I'd love to know how you are using it. Do others have strategies for 1) attending to #Change11 regularly and 2) staying reasonably focussed on your personal learning goals. Since I'm posting this on the change.mooc site, I wonder if we can exchange strategies. Jane Wilde - Vermont [Comment]


These are individual comments posted today to the discussion threads (for new discussion threads, see the list above).

Ian Hall, Change11 Skypers Group, Alan Yes the message area in Skype is for the ....
sphinney, Re: Frustrated with the #change11 RSS feed. Technical difficulties, I'm having the same trouble trying to view ....